# Why The effects unexpectedly became smaller after employing non-central parameterization？

**URL:** <https://discourse.mc-stan.org/t/why-the-effects-unexpectedly-became-smaller-after-employing-non-central-parameterization/34082>\
**Category:** Modeling\
**Tags:** brms, rstan, cmdstanr, specification\
**Created:** [February 12, 2024, 2:21pm UTC](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/t/why-the-effects-unexpectedly-became-smaller-after-employing-non-central-parameterization/34082 "2024-02-12T14:21:14Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 6\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![zrn](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/discourse.mc-stan.org/zrn/32/17777_2.png) [@zrn](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/u/zrn)\
**Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 2:21pm UTC](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/t/why-the-effects-unexpectedly-became-smaller-after-employing-non-central-parameterization/34082/1 "2024-02-12T14:21:14Z")

</div>

Hello everyone! I’m trying to build a double random factor mediation model using rstan. Initially, I used code with central parameterization from [Bayesian Multilevel Mediation | Model Estimation by Example](https://m-clark.github.io/models-by-example/bayesian-mixed-mediation.html). However, the model fit was poor with low Effective Sample Size (ESS) and issues with Bayesian Fraction of Missing Information (BFMI).

Following expert advice\*\*@andre.pfeuffer\*\*, I switched to non-central parameterization version. With this approach, the model fit well. However, when I added random slopes to this model, all fixed effects became non-significant, which is highly unusual. I’m curious to understand why this is happening!

central parameterization version:

> random="data{  
> int\<lower=1\> N;  
> vector[N] c1;  
> vector[N] c2;  
> vector[N] aq;  
> vector[N] cr;  
> vector[N] adt;  
> int\<lower=1\> J;  
> int\<lower=1, upper=J\> Group[N];  
> int\<lower=1\> G;  
> int\<lower=1, upper=G\> Group2[N];  
> }  
> parameters{  
> real alphaaq;  
> real beta1aq;  
> real beta2aq;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_alphaaq;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta1aq;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta2aq;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigmaaq;  
> real alphacr;  
> real beta1cr;  
> real beta2cr;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_alphacr;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta1cr;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta2cr;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigmacr;  
> real alphaadt;  
> real beta1adt;  
> real beta2adt;  
> real beta3adt;  
> real beta4adt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_alphaadt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta1adt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta2adt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta3adt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta4adt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_adt;  
> cholesky\_factor\_corr[11] Omega\_chol1;  
> cholesky\_factor\_corr[11] Omega\_chol2;  
> vector\<lower=0\>[11] sigma\_ranef1;  
> vector\<lower=0\>[11] sigma\_ranef2;  
> matrix[J,11] gamma1; # random effects for id  
> matrix[G,11] gamma2; # random effects for topic  
> }  
> transformed parameters{  
> vector[J] gamma1alphaaq;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta1aq;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta2aq;  
> vector[J] gamma1alphacr;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta1cr;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta2cr;  
> vector[J] gamma1alpha;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta1;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta2;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta3;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta4;  
> for (j in 1:J){  
> gamma1alphaaq[j] = gamma1[j,1];  
> gamma1beta1aq[j] = gamma1[j,2];  
> gamma1beta2aq[j] = gamma1[j,3];  
> gamma1alphacr[j] = gamma1[j,4];  
> gamma1beta1cr[j] = gamma1[j,5];  
> gamma1beta2cr[j] = gamma1[j,6];  
> gamma1alpha[j]= gamma1[j,7];  
> gamma1beta1[j] = gamma1[j,8];  
> gamma1beta2[j] = gamma1[j,9];  
> gamma1beta3[j] = gamma1[j,10];  
> gamma1beta4[j] = gamma1[j,11];}  
> vector[G] gamma2alphaaq;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta1aq;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta2aq;  
> vector[G] gamma2alphacr;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta1cr;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta2cr;  
> vector[G] gamma2alpha;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta1;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta2;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta3;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta4;  
> for (g in 1:G){  
> gamma2alphaaq[g] = gamma2[g,1];  
> gamma2beta1aq[g] = gamma2[g,2];  
> gamma2beta2aq[g] = gamma2[g,3];  
> gamma2alphacr[g] = gamma2[g,4];  
> gamma2beta1cr[g] = gamma2[g,5];  
> gamma2beta2cr[g] = gamma2[g,6];  
> gamma2alpha[g]= gamma2[g,7];  
> gamma2beta1[g] = gamma2[g,8];  
> gamma2beta2[g] = gamma2[g,9];  
> gamma2beta3[g] = gamma2[g,10];  
> gamma2beta4[g] = gamma2[g,11];}  
> }  
> model{  
> vector[N] mu\_adt;  
> vector[N] mu\_aq;  
> vector[N] mu\_cr;  
> matrix[11,11] D1;  
> matrix[11,11] D2;  
> matrix[11, 11] DC1;  
> matrix[11, 11] DC2;  
> sigma\_alphaaq ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_beta1aq ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_beta2aq ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> alphaaq ~ normal(0, sigma\_alphaaq);  
> beta1aq ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta1aq);  
> beta2aq ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta2aq);  
> sigmaaq ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_alphacr ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_beta1cr ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_beta2cr ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> alphacr ~ normal(0, sigma\_alphacr);  
> beta1cr ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta1cr);  
> beta2cr ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta2cr);  
> sigmacr ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_alphaadt ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_beta1adt ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_beta2adt ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_beta3adt ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_beta4adt ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> alphaadt ~ normal(0, sigma\_alphaadt);  
> beta1adt ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta1adt);  
> beta2adt ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta2adt);  
> beta3adt ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta3adt);  
> beta4adt ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta4adt);  
> sigma\_adt ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_ranef1 ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> sigma\_ranef2 ~ cauchy(0, 1);  
> Omega\_chol1 ~ lkj\_corr\_cholesky(2.0);  
> Omega\_chol2 ~ lkj\_corr\_cholesky(2.0);  
> D1 = diag\_matrix(sigma\_ranef1);  
> D2 = diag\_matrix(sigma\_ranef2);  
> DC1 = D1 \* Omega\_chol1;  
> DC2 = D2 \* Omega\_chol2;  
> for (j in 1:J) { # loop for Group random effects id  
> gamma1[j] ~ multi\_normal\_cholesky(rep\_vector(0, 11), DC1);}  
> for (g in 1:G){ # loop for Group random effects topic  
> gamma2[g] ~ multi\_normal\_cholesky(rep\_vector(0, 11), DC2);}  
> for (n in 1:N){  
> mu\_aq[n] = alphaaq + gamma1alphaaq[Group[n]] + gamma2alphaaq[Group2[n]]+  
> (beta1aq + gamma1beta1aq[Group[n]] + gamma2beta1aq[Group2[n]]) \* c1[n] +  
> (beta2aq + gamma1beta2aq[Group[n]] + gamma2beta2aq[Group2[n]]) \* c2[n];  
> mu\_cr[n] = alphacr + gamma1alphacr[Group[n]] + gamma2alphacr[Group2[n]]+  
> (beta1cr + gamma1beta1cr[Group[n]] + gamma2beta1cr[Group2[n]]) \* c1[n] +  
> (beta2cr + gamma1beta2cr[Group[n]] + gamma2beta2cr[Group2[n]]) \* c2[n];  
> mu\_adt[n] = alphaadt + gamma1alpha[Group[n]] + gamma2alpha[Group2[n]]+  
> (beta1adt + gamma1beta1[Group[n]] + gamma2beta1[Group2[n]]) \* c1[n] +  
> (beta2adt + gamma1beta2[Group[n]] + gamma2beta2[Group2[n]]) \* c2[n] +  
> (beta3adt + gamma1beta3[Group[n]] + gamma2beta3[Group2[n]]) \* aq[n] +  
> (beta4adt + gamma1beta4[Group[n]] + gamma2beta4[Group2[n]]) \* cr[n];}  
> aq ~ normal(mu\_aq, sigmaaq);  
> cr ~ normal(mu\_cr, sigmacr);  
> adt ~ normal(mu\_adt, sigma\_adt);  
> }  
> generated quantities{  
> real naiveIndEffect1;  
> real avgIndEffect1\_1;  
> real avgIndEffect1\_2;  
> real naiveIndEffect2;  
> real avgIndEffect2\_1;  
> real avgIndEffect2\_2;  
> real naiveIndEffect3;  
> real avgIndEffect3\_1;  
> real avgIndEffect3\_2;  
> real naiveIndEffect4;  
> real avgIndEffect4\_1;  
> real avgIndEffect4\_2;  
> real totalEffect1\_1;  
> real totalEffect1\_2;  
> matrix[11,11] covMatRE1;  
> matrix[11,11] covMatRE2;  
> covMatRE1 = diag\_matrix(sigma\_ranef1) \* tcrossprod(Omega\_chol1) \* diag\_matrix(sigma\_ranef1);  
> covMatRE2 = diag\_matrix(sigma\_ranef2) \* tcrossprod(Omega\_chol2) \* diag\_matrix(sigma\_ranef2);  
> naiveIndEffect1=beta1aq \* beta3adt;  
> avgIndEffect1\_1=beta1aq \* beta3adt+covMatRE1[2,10];  
> avgIndEffect1\_2=beta1aq \* beta3adt+covMatRE2[2,10];  
> naiveIndEffect2=beta1cr \* beta4adt;  
> avgIndEffect2\_1=beta1cr \* beta4adt+covMatRE1[5,11];  
> avgIndEffect2\_2=beta1aq \* beta4adt+covMatRE2[5,11];  
> naiveIndEffect3=beta2aq \* beta3adt;  
> avgIndEffect3\_1=beta2aq \* beta3adt+covMatRE1[3,10];  
> avgIndEffect3\_2=beta2aq \* beta3adt+covMatRE2[3,10];  
> naiveIndEffect4=beta2cr \* beta4adt;  
> avgIndEffect4\_1=beta2cr \* beta4adt+covMatRE1[6,11];  
> avgIndEffect4\_2=beta2cr \* beta4adt+covMatRE2[6,11];  
> totalEffect1\_1 = avgIndEffect1\_1+avgIndEffect2\_1+  
> avgIndEffect3\_1+avgIndEffect4\_1+beta1adt+beta2adt;  
> totalEffect1\_2 =avgIndEffect1\_2+avgIndEffect2\_2+avgIndEffect3\_2+avgIndEffect4\_2+  
> beta1adt+beta2adt;  
> }  
> "

non-central parameterization version:

> random2="data{  
> int\<lower=1\> N;  
> vector[N] c1;  
> vector[N] c2;  
> vector[N] aq;  
> vector[N] cr;  
> vector[N] adt;  
> int\<lower=1\> J;  
> int\<lower=1, upper=J\> Group[N];  
> int\<lower=1\> G;  
> int\<lower=1, upper=G\> Group2[N];  
> }  
> parameters{  
> real alphaaq;  
> real beta1aq;  
> real beta2aq;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_alphaaq;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta1aq;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta2aq;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigmaaq;  
> real alphacr;  
> real beta1cr;  
> real beta2cr;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_alphacr;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta1cr;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta2cr;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigmacr;  
> real alphaadt;  
> real beta1adt;  
> real beta2adt;  
> real beta3adt;  
> real beta4adt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_alphaadt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta1adt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta2adt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta3adt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_beta4adt;  
> real\<lower=0\> sigma\_adt;  
> cholesky\_factor\_corr[11] Omega\_chol1;  
> cholesky\_factor\_corr[11] Omega\_chol2;  
> vector\<lower=0\>[11] sigma\_ranef1;  
> vector\<lower=0\>[11] sigma\_ranef2;  
> matrix[J,11] gamma1\_raw;  
> matrix[G,11] gamma2\_raw;  
> vector[11] mu1;  
> vector[11] mu2;  
> }  
> transformed parameters{  
> vector[J] gamma1alphaaq;  
> vector[J] gamma1alphacr;  
> vector[J] gamma1alpha;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta1aq;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta2aq;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta1cr;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta2cr;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta1adt;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta2adt;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta3adt;  
> vector[J] gamma1beta4adt;  
> vector[G] gamma2alphaaq;  
> vector[G] gamma2alphacr;  
> vector[G] gamma2alpha;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta1aq;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta2aq;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta1cr;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta2cr;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta1adt;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta2adt;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta3adt;  
> vector[G] gamma2beta4adt;  
> vector[N] mu\_adt;  
> vector[N] mu\_aq;  
> vector[N] mu\_cr;  
> matrix[J,11] gamma1 = rep\_matrix(mu1’, J) + gamma1\_raw \* diag\_pre\_multiply(sigma\_ranef1, Omega\_chol1)‘;  
> matrix[G,11] gamma2 = rep\_matrix(mu2’, G) + gamma2\_raw \* diag\_pre\_multiply(sigma\_ranef2, Omega\_chol2)';  
> for (j in 1:J){  
> gamma1alphaaq[j] = gamma1[j,1];  
> gamma1alphacr[j] = gamma1[j,2];  
> gamma1alpha[j]= gamma1[j,3];  
> gamma1beta1aq[j]= gamma1[j,4];  
> gamma1beta1cr[j]= gamma1[j,5];  
> gamma1beta1adt[j]= gamma1[j,6];  
> gamma1beta2aq[j]= gamma1[j,7];  
> gamma1beta2cr[j]= gamma1[j,8];  
> gamma1beta2adt[j]= gamma1[j,9];  
> gamma1beta3adt[j]= gamma1[j,10];  
> gamma1beta4adt[j]= gamma1[j,11];  
> }  
> for (g in 1:G) {  
> gamma2alphaaq[g] = gamma2[g,1];  
> gamma2alphacr[g] = gamma2[g,2];  
> gamma2alpha[g]= gamma2[g,3];  
> gamma2beta1aq[g]= gamma2[g,4];  
> gamma2beta1cr[g]= gamma2[g,5];  
> gamma2beta1adt[g]= gamma2[g,6];  
> gamma2beta2aq[g]= gamma2[g,7];  
> gamma2beta2cr[g]= gamma2[g,8];  
> gamma2beta2adt[g]= gamma2[g,9];  
> gamma2beta3adt[g]= gamma2[g,10];  
> gamma2beta4adt[g]= gamma2[g,11];  
> }  
> for (n in 1:N) {  
> mu\_aq[n] = alphaaq + gamma1alphaaq[Group[n]] + gamma2alphaaq[Group2[n]]+  
> (beta1aq+gamma1beta1aq[Group[n]]+gamma2beta1aq[Group2[n]]) \* c1[n] +  
> (beta2aq+gamma1beta2aq[Group[n]]+gamma2beta2aq[Group2[n]]) \* c2[n];  
> mu\_cr[n] = alphacr + gamma1alphacr[Group[n]] + gamma2alphacr[Group2[n]]+  
> (beta1cr+gamma1beta1cr[Group[n]]+gamma2beta1cr[Group2[n]]) \* c1[n] +  
> (beta2cr+gamma1beta2cr[Group[n]]+gamma2beta2cr[Group2[n]]) \* c2[n];  
> mu\_adt[n] = alphaadt + gamma1alpha[Group[n]] + gamma2alpha[Group2[n]]+  
> (beta1adt+gamma1beta1adt[Group[n]]+gamma2beta1adt[Group2[n]]) \* c1[n] +  
> (beta2adt+gamma1beta2adt[Group[n]]+gamma2beta2adt[Group2[n]]) \* c2[n] +  
> (beta3adt+gamma1beta3adt[Group[n]]+gamma2beta4adt[Group2[n]]) \* aq[n] +  
> (beta4adt+gamma1beta4adt[Group[n]]+gamma2beta4adt[Group2[n]]) \* cr[n];  
> }  
> }  
> model{  
> sigma\_alphaaq ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_beta1aq ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_beta2aq ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> alphaaq ~ normal(0, sigma\_alphaaq);  
> beta1aq ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta1aq);  
> beta2aq ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta2aq);  
> sigmaaq ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_alphacr ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_beta1cr ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_beta2cr ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> alphacr ~ normal(0, sigma\_alphacr);  
> beta1cr ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta1cr);  
> beta2cr ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta2cr);  
> to\_vector(gamma1\_raw) ~ normal(0, 1);  
> to\_vector(gamma2\_raw) ~ normal(0, 1);  
> sigmacr ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_alphaadt ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_beta1adt ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_beta2adt ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_beta3adt ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_beta4adt ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> alphaadt ~ normal(0, sigma\_alphaadt);  
> beta1adt ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta1adt);  
> beta2adt ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta2adt);  
> beta3adt ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta3adt);  
> beta4adt ~ normal(0, sigma\_beta4adt);  
> sigma\_adt ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_ranef1 ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> sigma\_ranef2 ~ student\_t(5, 0, 2);  
> Omega\_chol1 ~ lkj\_corr\_cholesky(2.0);  
> Omega\_chol2 ~ lkj\_corr\_cholesky(2.0);  
> aq ~ normal(mu\_aq, sigmaaq);  
> cr ~ normal(mu\_cr, sigmacr);  
> adt ~ normal(mu\_adt, sigma\_adt);  
> mu1 ~ normal(0, 2);  
> mu2 ~ normal(0, 2);  
> }  
> generated quantities{  
> real naiveIndEffect1;  
> real naiveIndEffect2;  
> real naiveIndEffect3;  
> real naiveIndEffect4;  
> naiveIndEffect1=beta1aq \* beta3adt;  
> naiveIndEffect2=beta1cr \* beta4adt;  
> naiveIndEffect3=beta2aq \* beta3adt;  
> naiveIndEffect4=beta2cr \* beta4adt;  
> }  
> "

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![zrn](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/discourse.mc-stan.org/zrn/32/17777_2.png) [@zrn](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/u/zrn)\
**Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/t/why-the-effects-unexpectedly-became-smaller-after-employing-non-central-parameterization/34082/2 "2024-02-12T14:28:46Z")

</div>

![db4333aa347650fd9d656ef5ca752aa8e91e19e2_2_750x1000 (1)](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/mc_stan/original/3X/1/0/1012a0f429ecf1ae8c858e6f651c827eb46d8982.jpeg)  
Here is the model image and the data I used～  
[data.csv](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/uploads/short-url/6Psj87lkLJ0eltVLKbs9IQfYHet.csv) (39.0 KB)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![zrn](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/discourse.mc-stan.org/zrn/32/17777_2.png) [@zrn](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/u/zrn)\
**Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 2:58pm UTC](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/t/why-the-effects-unexpectedly-became-smaller-after-employing-non-central-parameterization/34082/3 "2024-02-12T14:58:19Z")

</div>

I really need some help!!! This issue has been bothering me for half a month. Appreciate any assistance.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jsocolar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/discourse.mc-stan.org/jsocolar/32/2486_2.png) [@jsocolar](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/u/jsocolar)\
**Post date:** [February 12, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/t/why-the-effects-unexpectedly-became-smaller-after-employing-non-central-parameterization/34082/4 "2024-02-12T20:43:47Z")

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In general, it is expected that the fixed effects might change when adding random slopes to a model. Here’s a super simple example of how it might happen, though in reality it can be subtler. Suppose that the mean slope across all groups is small, but that the slopes are variable, with some groups having sizeable slopes. The random slopes specification should be able to capture this well (assuming that the variation in slope between groups is sorta-kinda approximately Gaussian), and should yield a small estimate for the fixed effect, which represents the average slope across the groups.

Now suppose that most of the individual data points (rows) come from one single group, and that group happens to show a strong positive slope. Without the random slopes, the estimate of the population-level slope (across groups) will get dominated by the slope of that one single group.

The above example shows a case where the naive slope without including the random slopes is quite large and the true mean slope across groups is small. Another possibility is that the true mean slope across groups isn’t necessarily small, but instead is highly uncertain. This is possible if the random effect is estimated using data from a very small number of groups, or if it has a very large variance.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![zrn](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/discourse.mc-stan.org/zrn/32/17777_2.png) [@zrn](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/u/zrn)\
**Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 5:34am UTC](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/t/why-the-effects-unexpectedly-became-smaller-after-employing-non-central-parameterization/34082/6 "2024-02-13T05:34:20Z")

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Thanks for this explanation! But I’m still puzzled as to why the effect sizes have different significance results in the centered parameterized and non-centered parameterized versions of the model.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jsocolar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/discourse.mc-stan.org/jsocolar/32/2486_2.png) [@jsocolar](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/u/jsocolar)\
**Post date:** [February 13, 2024, 11:59am UTC](https://discourse.mc-stan.org/t/why-the-effects-unexpectedly-became-smaller-after-employing-non-central-parameterization/34082/7 "2024-02-13T11:59:53Z")

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Your original post didn’t mention that you had successfully fit the model with random slopes under the centered parameterization and observed different fixed effect estimates. I thought that you never got a reliable fit under the centered parameterization (?)